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bobdina
06-30-2010, 02:10 PM
Lawmakers urge major cuts in Defense spending
By Katherine McIntire Peters kpeters@govexec.com June 11, 2010

A bipartisan group of House lawmakers on Friday urged the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility to take a hard look a military spending as the panel weighs options for reducing the nation's growing budget deficit.

Specifically, the legislators backed a list of cuts outlined in a new report by the Sustainable Defense Task Force, a diverse group of experts the lawmakers convened.

The task force report identified $960 billion in savings that could be generated over the next decade by reducing unneeded weapons systems, cutting personnel and infrastructure, and reforming military health care, among other proposals.


In a letter to members of the fiscal responsibility commission, Reps. Barney Frank, D-Mass.; Ron Paul, R-Texas; Walter Jones, R-N.C.; and Ron Wyden, D-Ore.; noted that while they hold different views about the course of operations in Afghanistan and Iraq, "none of us propose in any way to give our troops in the field anything less than everything they need."

At a press conference Friday, Frank said, "The four of us strongly believe that unless there is a substantial reduction in American military spending over a 10-year period -- close to slightly over a trillion dollars -- you simply cannot deal with deficit reduction in a way that is economically and socially responsible."

The task force made recommendations in six areas: strategic forces; conventional force structure; procurement, research and development; personnel; maintenance and logistics; and infrastructure. Task force members focused their analysis on programs judged to be based on unproven or unreliable technologies, missions with poor cost-benefit ratios, assets and capabilities that over-match existing threats and management reform.

Specific recommendations include:

* Launchers would include 160 Minuteman missiles and seven Ohio-class submarines with 24 missiles (each with five warheads)
* Cutting 200,000 troops, resulting in a peacetime active-duty force of 1.3 million.
* Capping the peacetime military presence in Europe at 35,000 and in Asia at 65,000.
* Reducing the size of the Navy fleet from 287 battle-force ships to 230 and naval air wings from 10 to eight.6
This option would build 48 fewer ships and retire 37
more ships than the Navy currently plans. The reduction
would include two aircraft carriers and their associated
air wings. It would entail the Navy buying 60 fewer F-35
strike fighters than currently planned, as well as reduced
buys of other aircraft. And it would reduce the Navy’s
personnel requirement by 29,800 sailors.
As of mid-year 2010, the US Navy’s battle fleet
includes 286 battle force ships. The Navy hopes to build
up to a fleet of 315 ships by 2020. However, the Congressional
Budget Office (CBO) has expressed serious
doubts about whether the Navy’s plan is affordable.33
CBO has offered various future fleet options, varying
from 211 ships to 313 ships, depending on mission
emphasis.34 We offer an option that can meet
the nation’s essential security needs while being 20%
smaller than the Navy’s current fleet and 27% smaller
than the one it plans for 2020. This 230-ship fleet would
comprise:
• 9 aircraft carriers with 8 air wings,
• 7 strategic ballistic missile subs,
• 4 guided-missile subs,
• 37 attack subs,
• 85 large surface combat ships,
• 25 littoral combat ships,
• 27 amphibious combat ships,
• 36 logistics and support ships.


* Cutting the number of active-duty Army brigade combat teams from 45 to between 39 and 41.
* Retiring four of the 27 Marine Corps infantry battalions.
* Retiring four Air Force tactical fighter wings.
* Halting or delaying major weapons programs -- including the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, MV-22 Osprey, KC-X Aerial Refueling Tanker and Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle -- and fielding less-expensive alternatives.
* Changing how military compensation is calculated.
* Reforming the military's health care system.

The task force report noted that federal discretionary spending has nearly doubled since 2001, and more than one-third of that increase is attributed to the Pentagon budget, excluding the costs of operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"At a time of growing concern over federal deficits, all elements of the budget must be subjected to careful scrutiny," said Carl Conetta, co-director of the Project on Defense Alternatives, which coordinated the task force's efforts. "The Pentagon should be no exception."

The lawmakers' letter to the commissioners noted the United States operates 460 military installations in more than 38 countries, excluding those in Afghanistan and Iraq. "Given that every incremental federal dollar spent today is being financed with borrowed funds, maintaining that collection of overseas bases results in a perverse daisy chain of borrowing money from foreigners, spending those borrowed funds overseas, then sending never-ending interest payments back overseas as we roll over that debt again and again," the House members said.

"It is not realistic for a nation with limited resources to be expected to shoulder the defense burden of the entire planet. Yet American military spending today makes up approximately 44 percent of worldwide defense expenditures," the letter said.
complete report here http://www.comw.org/pda/fulltext/1006SDTFreport.pdf

death2mooj
06-30-2010, 06:15 PM
How about get rid of welfare and leave the fucking military alone

nastyleg
06-30-2010, 07:51 PM
How about get rid of welfare and leave the fucking military alone

or cut back the number of representatives in office on top of what you said.

death2mooj
06-30-2010, 09:12 PM
or cut back the number of representatives in office on top of what you said.

And quit bailing out failing companies on top of that!!

DevilDog812
06-30-2010, 10:05 PM
what the hell!?!? i got an email today from Civil Air Patrol HQ saying that the current bill has ZERO DOLLARS in the CAP budget. how will we continue to function without any money? its all volunteer. we need to get some changes in this bill before it is passed

MickDonalds
07-01-2010, 12:37 AM
I agree. Cut welfare spending and free social services to illegal immigrants: healthcare, ambulance rides, public transportation etc.

Also if military cuts have to happen cut down the reserves and guard. I'm not trying to be an asshole (I'm active duty and can see where one might think that-), but from what I've heard and seen, there are thousands of "broke dicks" and "non-deployables" soaking up benefits and weekend drill money that could be going to the overall forces. There's a bunch of old fucks that just hang around, getting fat, never deploying, and "Hiding Out" for years in a senior NCO position within the Guard and Reserve. There's non-deployables in the Active side of the ARMY too, and they need to be kicked on out the door. This is the military, not "Job Corps" where we give handouts and let people hang out, (which we were forced to do back when the military overall was wayyy understrength)

Again, please don't misconstrue this as "Part Time Bashing", as they fill a CRITICAL role during wartime, and their civilian experience an professionalism oftentimes supercedes levels of their counterparts in te regular Army. There's units out there that are BETTER than those of us on active duty, and we do this every day for a living! :)


I guarantee you that'd free up a TON of money to put towards the budget. Kick about 20,000 out of the reserve, guard and find about 5,000 shitbags hiding out in the active duty and there you go. Another way to seperate people is find females who've "Oh so conveniently" gotten pregnant every time a deployment warning order is issued to a unit. When you've missed Iraq/A'stan 3 times because you "decided" you and your baby daddy wanted kids, that's not coincidence, that's using your body as a means of shirking deployment.

nastyleg
07-01-2010, 01:01 AM
I agree. Cut welfare spending and free social services to illegal immigrants: healthcare, ambulance rides, public transportation etc.

Also if military cuts have to happen cut down the reserves and guard. I'm not trying to be an asshole (I'm active duty and can see where one might think that-), but from what I've heard and seen, there are thousands of "broke dicks" and "non-deployables" soaking up benefits and weekend drill money that could be going to the overall forces. There's a bunch of old fucks that just hang around, getting fat, never deploying, and "Hiding Out" for years in a senior NCO position within the Guard and Reserve. There's non-deployables in the Active side of the ARMY too, and they need to be kicked on out the door. This is the military, not "Job Corps" where we give handouts and let people hang out, (which we were forced to do back when the military overall was wayyy understrength)

Again, please don't misconstrue this as "Part Time Bashing", as they fill a CRITICAL role during wartime, and their civilian experience an professionalism oftentimes supercedes levels of their counterparts in te regular Army. There's units out there that are BETTER than those of us on active duty, and we do this every day for a living! :)


I guarantee you that'd free up a TON of money to put towards the budget. Kick about 20,000 out of the reserve, guard and find about 5,000 shitbags hiding out in the active duty and there you go. Another way to seperate people is find females who've "Oh so conveniently" gotten pregnant every time a deployment warning order is issued to a unit. When you've missed Iraq/A'stan 3 times because you "decided" you and your baby daddy wanted kids, that's not coincidence, that's using your body as a means of shirking deployment.

Or the military could cut all of the special advertising on the nascar, funny car, formula one, paying for full feature concerts, and other wasteful advertising. that would free up millions. The army on all sides is cutting down on the overall size of it. I know that the reservist and national guard deploy a lot. There are those units and people that dont deploy in active duty. Reserves have those that hide out as well. I am one of 3 people who have deployed 3 or more times. The Army does not need laundry care specialists.

death2mooj
07-01-2010, 02:41 AM
Getting rid of freeloaders is another way to cut costs BUT I would boot them out and use that freed up money elsewhere in the Army. Welfare gobbles up over 1.2 trillion a fucking year, it's not just welfare there is like 20+ government funded welfare type programs. None of these have supervised job searching or anything to actually make the people work rather than live off of welfare.

I'm all for helping honest people that are on hard times, but freeloaders need to be dealt with. I compare these people to ticks, they latch on and feed off of the public.

There are so many places that money is just flat out wasted in this country its rediculous. If politicians actually performed the jobs they were hired to do we wouldnt have this problem.

MickDonalds
07-01-2010, 03:58 AM
Or the military could cut all of the special advertising on the nascar, funny car, formula one, paying for full feature concerts, and other wasteful advertising. that would free up millions. The army on all sides is cutting down on the overall size of it. I know that the reservist and national guard deploy a lot. There are those units and people that dont deploy in active duty. Reserves have those that hide out as well. I am one of 3 people who have deployed 3 or more times. The Army does not need laundry care specialists.

That's a damn good point, I've thought of how stupid it is that the ARMY specifically TRIES to recruit by means of Nascar and racing....lame.

You are right about Underwear Washers and Cooks and service jobs that are no longer even needed in the overall forces. The easy way to solve that is make every unit have at least 2 personnel that will have an "ASI" (additional skill identifier) of 92G (cook). You'd have every MOS be eligible, so that way a unit could take two soldiers that are interested in having a second MOS, or that like to cook, for example. That way, if that unit goes to a certain area during deployment and there's no infrastructure or KBR type of support, those two soldiers would pick up the cookbook and get to work.

The army does need to get rid of some jobs though. Laundry and Textile Specialist? GTFO..

Reactor-Axe-Man
07-01-2010, 11:11 AM
The sponsorship deals are chicken feed in terms of actual cost, and may serve as a recruiting tool. This is more than just belt tightening, this is a deliberate move along Zero's policy lines to humble and restrain the United States and prevent it from being a world power at all costs.

joelee
07-01-2010, 01:43 PM
Or the military could cut all of the special advertising on the nascar, funny car, formula one, paying for full feature concerts, and other wasteful advertising. that would free up millions. The army on all sides is cutting down on the overall size of it. I know that the reservist and national guard deploy a lot. There are those units and people that dont deploy in active duty. Reserves have those that hide out as well. I am one of 3 people who have deployed 3 or more times. The Army does not need laundry care specialists.



The Navy has Mess Managment Specialists, but not enough to do everything needed in the galley. When I was in (20 years ago) if you were E-3 or below and reported to a new ship you had to spend 90 days working for the MSs, so that all the meals got done but they didn't have to have a ton of cooks. I would imagine that it would be evenm easier to replace those types of specialists at a base.

And how can they even consider reducing the number of carriers? They are the most important weapons system that this country possesses. They are the most intimidating, flexible, and effective bang for the buck we have...

But what worries me most in the article is where they mention, but don't give specifics on changing the compensation, and medical treatment for active duty members.
Unless they are giving all members a raise, then I'm going to have a problem with that.(It would be nice if all military members got the same percentage raise every year that Congress got, would't it?) And how can they change the medical care, unless they are thinking of charging for dependants.And that shit won't fly either.
I'd really like to know where they are going with that.

bobdina
07-01-2010, 01:56 PM
Might be hard to find extra guy's in uniform. here's the size they want the Army and Marine Corps copied right from the report

2 Cut active-duty Army to approximately 360,000
personnel. Save $220 billion from 2011–2020.
The estimate of these savings draws on a 2009 CBO calculation
that reversing the “Grow the Army” initiative,
which had added 65,000 troops to the Army, would save
$88.7 billion over the next ten years. We assume that our
savings over the same ten-year period would be at least
two and a half times that of the CBO estimate.



3 Cut the size of the Corps by nearly 30 percent, from
202,000 to approximately 145,000. Save $67 billion
from 2011–2020.
Personnel reductions would occur over a ten-year
period, approximately 3.5 percent each year. We arrived
at these estimates by modifying the CBO projections
for the Army. While Army and Marine Corps personnel
costs differ, this calculation is sufficient for illustrative
purposes.
Our estimates of savings from Army and Marine
Corps reductions are conservative. Given trends in the
cost of compensation and particularly health care, the
DoD projections of Total Obligational Authority for Army
and Marine Corps during 2011–2015 are unrealistic.

joelee
07-01-2010, 02:37 PM
Holy Shit! what are they trying to do to this country...
I know that this administration has said one thing, and done another from day one, but I never thought that they were actively trying to destroy our county.
I thought that a difference of political beliefs was the main problem, but that they still had what they believed was the best interest of the country at heart. Now I'm not sure that is the case.
The money they are talking about saving is less than what was in TARP isn't it (I just checked TARP was $356 billion), and they are going to loot the military AGAIN! Man, this has just ruined my day...

Reactor-Axe-Man
07-02-2010, 01:58 AM
These fucknozzles are just taking a page out of every city, county, and state's fiscal playbook:

1. They want to shovel more pork into the trough and/or fund more bullshit social engineering programs.

2. These programs cost more money than the city/county/state has to spend.

3. Rather than reduce or axe the above mentioned spending, threaten instead to cut spending to education and public safety (i.e., police and fire departments)

4. Watch the public go apeshit over these proposed cuts.

5. Raise taxes (usually sales tax or some special event tax such as for restaurants, hotels, rental cars, et cetera.) instead to avoid cutting the programs you've threatened.

6. Laugh your asses off at the idiotic public for voting/approving even more taxes to pay for your pork barrel and social engineering bullshit.

7. Lather. Rinse. Repeat ad nauseum until the public either wakes up and lynches your fat asses or until you've destroyed/driven off your tax base with your corrupt and confiscatory government. Beg the Feds/China for a bailout. Continue until you've exhausted everyone else's wealth.

National Defense is one of the few enumerated powers of the Federal Government. Education is not. Neither are any Social Welfare programs. Any cocksucker who thinks they can cut Defense without taking equal if not greater chunks out of the rest first deserves the ass-kicking that will eventually follow.