Open letter to the community - that's why we cannot have nice things

[Stark]

AC Crew open letter – Quote 4chan: This is why we cannot have nice things

For a long time I have been flirting with the idea to write an open letter to the community – AC has grown from a small project back two years ago to a respectable size
Webpage with a very active and engaging community – but apart from me moaning about the lack of funds and my monthly battle with my highly pregnant wife when it comes down to paying the server for AC (at least she cannot run that fast anymore) we have never really explained what goes on in the background.
And I think it is time for me to lay some of the ugly truth open for everybody to see.
So bare with me this will be a quick but dirty ride.
First of all let’s talk about the elephant on the couch everybody tries to ignore so desperately.
AC is big enough that it needs its own dedicated server (YouTube for instance has 3000 of much more powerful servers) – to give you guys the best possible speed when it comes down to streaming your videos we are paying for an unmetered 20mbps connection – Total price (not including extra backup space and upgrade of database) $550.- that’s money that I have to pay on a monthly basis – with Donations and ad incomes I have to pay an average of $300 a month – And let me tell you folks my wife can be scary when she get’s angry

The problem that we as the administration of AC are facing is that the overall the server (hardware wise and also line wise) compared to the amount of page views and visits we have is not adequate anymore and cannot sustain the constant increase in traffic.
Every time you try to connect to AC and you see an Error message pop up, that is down to too many connections to the webpage – picture 1000 people trying to connect all at the same time to view a video – the video is 10mb large but the line we pay for is only 20mb per second unmetered… You can see for yourself how fast AC can run into connection problems.
So the simple and straight forward solution is to upgrade the server, the problem is that I have to personally finance this webpage and I simply cannot pay for another server upgrade which would bump up the overall bill to easy $800 pm, the ad incomes have steadily decreased and if it wouldn’t be for the brave and incredible generous donations from some AC members we would have closed this project a long time ago and I want to thank every single member and guest that has donated.
So let’s see what we can do to change this situation.
- Premium member ship (Even if the community has voted against it we are flirting heavily with the idea to only allow members that have paid for a premium account to view certain categories or maybe the Vid of the days).
- Porn ads – Pay the best but would be (in my personal opinion) a disaster for the overall community
- Selling shares of this webpage to the community – Idea came up a while back and we are discussing this

But let’s be honest all this doesn’t not have to even happen if the Community collectively donates to keep AC up and running – We have always focused on making this not our page but your page, the community drives this car – we as in the administration are just the steering wheel you guys are the motor and the wheels.
I want ever one of you who has a registered account think about this today – How much would you miss Apacheclips? If it would disappear tomorrow?


You can discuss this open letter and any idea you may have with all of us in this Forum thread:

[Chaser]

the link to this forum on the frontpage is not working.

i think 5$ per month is ok for the most users, i would pay this.

[Stark]

thanks - fixed

[slipknot]

i think that you should create some merchanside like keychains, mugs, T-shirts etc.
this would be cool, and surley should make some money for the site :)
-Lewis.

[BOOCOCKY]

i think that you should create some merchanside like keychains, mugs, T-shirts etc.
this would be cool, and surley should make some money for the site :)
-Lewis.

I would definatly rock an AC t-shirt

[death2mooj]

I believe merchandise would sell some but advertising must be the main selling point, if your getting enough hits to crash the server your getting enough hits to entice some advertising. T shirts would be kick ass, I would rock one.

Also a possible bandaid to the problem at hand could be a queue line, I dont know exactly how many people can view files at once but if it exceeds a certain amount you would fall into the queue and wait to view vids..... kind of like all those download sites.

[Hellfreeza]

ok, i am from Austria and i dont have a credit card.

are there other ways to donate for AC without a credit card?

[nastyleg]

PayPal I believe let me get in contact with Stark about that

[Moscheqe]

Can't seem to post reply?

[Moscheqe]

Oh I see I need to post more replies before doing a long reply..... hopefully you'll delete these two!

[mulze32]

I found AC not to many months ago and from my personal experiences, I would most likely subscribe to this site because its definitely a first class site.

[Stark]

Good ideas fellas keep them coming
T-Shirts we had that a while ago I look into it

[lacenturion]

I'll contribute ...we don't need porn links

[DBLXED]

I don't know how to use paypal. Credit card is maxed the feck out atm. lawl
If you can brief members on how to use it would be cool.
I might google it or check out their webpage in the next couple.
It funny because if you were standing in front of me, I would easily hand you a 10 or 20$

[nastyleg]

ATM/Debit cards should be able to be used like a credit card online as long as it is backed.

[angusnra]

I just donated $10. And I can still feed my kids. Let's go all you highly motivated and truly dedicated AC addicts. Grab your gear and get in formation. Saddle up and let go of 5 or 10 bucks. Keep us alive.

[usmc03]

I agree porn would definitely take away from the military side of the site. Imagine Apacheclips.com looking like theync..... Unorganized and full of viruses, no thank you. Like Stark said, if everyone dropped a couple bucks a month the site would work all the time ;) I'm for merchandise and a few bucks.

[aboutafire]

I don't know what kind of servers you are running on right now, but esecuredata.com is a canadian hosting company that we use for our corporate servers. They offer unmetered 100mb connections with their servers and they are competitively priced. Tech support is limited to hardware failures only so this service is definitely not for beginners. Running Windows O/S is another 25 dollars a month as well.

Not sure if that will help, but judging what I saw other places trying to charge us, it was fantastically cheaper. The servers don't get too powerful, but you can use 4 of the lower end servers each with a 100mb connection for some really nice throughput. If you are good with server management, this is definitely the way to go.

[Hoglover]

Stark, you said if everyone paid a $1 a month, then we would be good. so why can't we just do that?

[nastyleg]

we tried that before but in all honesty if you can give cool if not then fine the reason he asked for more than a dollar is that not everyone is going to donate.

[greenmamba]

T-Shirts, Stickers , Mugs ... that all would be great ...

Apart from this , I easily could get along with a small monthly contribution.

BTW, sort out paypal account tommorow.. never needed one, but now its
necessary to bring some "ammo to the fronline" ...

Errm... what about asking the Hughes Company for some sponsorship ? I guess the don´t get
better product placement elsewhere :-)

[pixelpollen]

I will pay $5 dollars a month happily.

why not make the entire site $1 a month, No exceptions.

People come here for quality content and thats worth a buck!

[nastyleg]

man you guys are really coming through thanks

[elzee]

There must be cheaper hosting around for this stuff. The Canada hosting site sounded interesting!

What about the application of Google ads? They are inoffensive and if everyone was encouraged to 'click through' occasionally you'd soon be getting a reasonable return. I've had Google ads on my site for a while and while I don't get anywhere near the hits of AC (thankfully) I still get some Googly money about every three months. I'm sure AC would do much better than that too. :)

Good luck with it!

[nastyleg]

I will talk to Stark about it currently our server is based out of Chicago last time he mentioned it

[Sixx]

I would and will pay monthly If I have to. This website is well worth it.
I'd also think about the how to go about Premium content as well. Or produce some sort of incentive for paying members.

Either way it goes, I'm up for anything that saves AC.

[sguay]

50 bux; hope this helps.
Please keep the porn out, I like the idea of merchandise.

[SlickGoodlin]

Stark ,

Since I've been on this ride from close to the beginning and since you presented such an outstanding SITREP and asked so nicely....count me in for a buck a month.

[atrox6661]

Well if your goal is to reduce the traffic to your site charging money to see certain content will certainly kill 75% of your userbase. 99% of the videos on your site can be found on other sites like liveleak, ync, NT, YT and other sites so really I find no reason to pay for videos I can see other places and anyone with experience on the internet knows this.

Like your exclusive 5 part apache video is already on about 10 sites, your best bet in keeping a good site and keeping it running is to place more adds, I don't see how people who like to see people getting blown into pieces with holes in there head and brains leaking out can't see a naked girl on the side of the page, talk about hypocritical. Anyone with a brain has Adblocker anyways so if you don't want to see porn you can simply block it out.

Sell merchandise, clothes, mugs etc.

[joelee]

You can go to a convenience store and buy re-loadable Visa cards. They work as credit, debit, orcash machine cards.

[perocity]

I think this site generates enough visitors/great content that it would do very well as a membership site. You could offer three levels of premium membership starting at 4.95 month and up with different perks (special avatars/badges, VIP video clip views) and merchandise (tshirts) for upgraded membership. Also, check out affiliate marketing and SEO, you can make a lot of money with this site and not have anything to do with porn (which will actually hurt you in Google ranking). It's worth doing the homework, you can make a living from this website (and make the wife happy too!).

[meh]

I would subscribe to AC! and buy a T-Shirt

[justabajabum]

I just joined yesterday, and thought the perspective of a new member might prove helpful. While so many of you "long-time" visitors of this site KNOW and appreciate the value provided and would gladly fork over a nominal fee for continued access, I think that making this a fee-based service might seriously retard growth in new memberships. If you do not want to "grow" the site and only wish to service the current user base, then fine...charge a fee. Eventually, the net effect may even be a reduced user base (not saying that's a bad thing...just indicating it is a real possibility). As someone else already indicated, many will pass this site up in favor or free sites with similar content.

If one of the goals is to grow this site, then I think your best bet is through advertising and merchandising. Does the military have any recruitment programs that could be advertised and provide revenue?

As for merchandising, my brother-in-law owns a merchandising company that can certainly handle any merchandising/promotional needs this site could have. I will not post their link here as I do not know if that is cool....hit me up if there is interest.

[perocity]

Let me be clear, you can still visit but if you want to be a VIP you must become a silver,gold or platinum member.

[dmain11]

In my honest opinion, this would push more people away. AC is top notch, but not a lifeline. If you charge for the good stuff, you will only hurt the site. You are looking at a bunch of veterans, myself included, noble followers, and armchair quarterbacks which make up the majority of the members on this page. I can't speak for all, but for the most part, nobody here is VIP status in any aspect of their lives. Tell me you are struggling to keep it going, I can kick down some cash. Tell me you want to make my AC experience better(server), I'll kick down some cash. Tell me you want to limit my access unless I pay, I'll view many of the same videos elsewhere. The uploads here are also duplicated elsewhere quite frequently (NO NOT ALL). Sell me a shirt, don't try to hold non-propriety media hostage. It won't work out for the betterment of anyone. Those who love their daily take on military videos, as I do, will certainly do anything they can, within reason, to keep the site up and going. C'mon people brainstorm and keep the site alive. I don't have the time to comment on every video featured, let alone posted, but I have a couple dollars. If you are the guy that comments on every release, instead focus your energy on how to make this a better existence for all AC patrons. Thanks for your time.

[Badsport]

Look i float around here watchin all your high qulaity vidz and use half the pictures in wallpaper gallery as desktopz and the like so i have zero problem donating money every month etc via paypal / Pre Paid Credit Card (they rock have em in Oz (Canvas Cards) or credit card etc probally due to having a decent paying job and since i pay other sitez (Kingdom KVCD/ Rapidshare etc) why shouldnt i give to you as well but naturally if i had a choose of say a low end or high end donation would i recieve more exclusive vidz or even more kikass content than otherz ? i dont give a rats ass if that seems wrong to otherz im really not interested in the 'i dont wann pay bullshit if should be free' obviously you have a family and your own thingz to deal with why should you pay for OUR pleasure lol i freakin wouldnt (and my GF would no-sex me for monthz even yearz and screw that shez a nutter in bed !! :)

Take Care Mate
And thank you for all of this so far

[wanny1971]

tryed to donate with my credit card..but pay pal doesn't work for me because i'm viewing on a PS3 and not everything is compatible ..
in england we have something called a PO box (a secure address) to send money/cheques.
not seen an similar address for AC ?? is there one ?? another way to donate other than credit card is my thinking as not all folk have credit cards too (young members

[cormack]

if i was to donate how would i go about it ? i havent got a clue about this sort of thing....

[chucklevision]

I imagine that people who post in the forums represent a tiny fraction of visitors to the site. Most people check-in, watch some Talib getting blown apart and then move on to the next site they visit. Charging for use I think would dramatically reduce the server demand as in reality only a tiny % would pay.

I joined up and donated $10 the other week, but do I intend to do so again? I hadn't really given it any thought, right at this moment in time (it may sound daft) but $10 is a lot of money to me, but I appreciated the quality of the site. I hadn't been on AC in quite a while, but I remembered it always was a good ride when I popped in. Another problem with 'donation' style sites is you see them all over the place, even on sites that clearly don't have a financial burden on the owners (blogger blogs etc) so new visitors might think you're pulling a fast one.

If there's *some* content for subscribers then it needs to be good enough to charge for, on the other hand there needs to be enough free content for the free-loaders.

Merchandise is a good way to raise a few dollars.

I ran a hobby-based blog for a while which grew to a scale I thought impossible, the costs to me (other than time) were nothing, but I was repeatedly approached by poker/bingo websites who seemed to offer a crazy amount of cash compared to declining advertising revenues generally. I would suggest that poker sites might be a way to go for some income. BUT... google doesn't like these kind of links (apparently) and can give you a google-slap (knock you down the search listings or knock your page rank).

I think you'd be surprised at how few people would pay to use AC (not because of AC, because of people), so merchandising and some advertising revenue sounds like your best bet.

Couldn't some videos be hosted on YouTube with embedded links (like the air-shows/TV docs and non-violent/smut) to reduce demand a little?

I don't know a lot about servers and the such, but isn't there a member somewhere that has a server that you could use?

[Blazuhhh]

Hello AC community,

I would like to know how the registered AC visitors stack up to the amount of guests the site has.
If you have a like a set fanbase of about 100 registered users that visit AC every day and a 1000+ guests
that do not even bother to register FOR FREE!! I do not think that they will pay a certain amount every month
for any costs that you have to keep the site running.

You also have to keep in mind the position you have in relation to other sites that host these kinds of clips and
like a few mentioned.... most clips on here are also hosted on others.

My suggestion is to go about an other way of advertising and indeed merchandising.
Although pornsites will gladly pay a few bucks to advertise it does clash (in my mind) with the site as a whole.
Google-ads I can agree with but NOT IN THE CLIPS!! put them also to the side.

And like Chucklevision said pokersites are also a possibility and can have a bonding aspect among members.
A few dutch sites also have advertising contracts with poker/betting sites and host a freeroll or something once a month
or every 2 months reserved for those sites they advertise on. It just needs a little smart planning to get the most out of those.

Also I see that Vets and enlisted people from many countries are among the AC community. Is it a possibility
these people can figure out if their military in some way might be intised to sponsor AC??

Just my 2 cents.

[wave1]

Well if your goal is to reduce the traffic to your site charging money to see certain content will certainly kill 75% of your userbase. 99% of the videos on your site can be found on other sites like liveleak, ync, NT, YT and other sites so really I find no reason to pay for videos I can see other places and anyone with experience on the internet knows this.

Like your exclusive 5 part apache video is already on about 10 sites, your best bet in keeping a good site and keeping it running is to place more adds, I don't see how people who like to see people getting blown into pieces with holes in there head and brains leaking out can't see a naked girl on the side of the page, talk about hypocritical. Anyone with a brain has Adblocker anyways so if you don't want to see porn you can simply block it out.

Sell merchandise, clothes, mugs etc.

I definitely agree with this, also the advertising will give you a steady stream of $, while everyone has great intentions, I would imagine we will be having the same conversation a year from now when when the donations dry up. As for a pay site, i think people might support it at first but you will definitely see your traffic dry up over the next while when people see they can get the content elsewhere for free.

I also think you are more apt to lose traffic by converting to a Pay Site than by adding advertisements, while some might not like ads, they will still come back, after all ads are everywhere. I have no problems with ads on the side of the page, live leak etc does this and I don't even notice them anymore.

I also agree with the extra gravy ($) of merchandise, if done professionally, I'd buy...

[submarine_killer]

the link to this forum on the frontpage is not working.

i think 5$ per month is ok for the most users, i would pay this.


dito
5$ per month & i like to buy some t-shirts

[death2mooj]

oh I could definately photoshop some badass shirt designs....let me know and I would do it gladly, I am amazed that no firearms manufacturers advertise on the site as is....not sure if the military would ever advertise because of how graphic alot of the content is and it wouldnt be considered "pc" but firearms and ammunition banners would definately generate some hits.

I can almost say with an exact certainty that everyone looking around on the site is a firearms enthusiast

[chucklevision]

I can almost say with an exact certainty that everyone looking around on the site is a firearms enthusiast

Bear in mind that most countries around the world don't have personal ownership of guns as the norm.

[sullahp1978]

how about a status bar showing the amount of donations needed for the month?
it could be on the front page...just a thought.

[woodsboy]

Well I read the "I wouldn't pay" opinions this is my outlook. I'm also new to the website and i have disagree. As you noticed this is not YouTube or LiveLeak. You know people have alot of time on their hands lately. To come on here, bash videos with stupid comments. Come on the forums and say bogus remarks. Now, you know there is just one thing most of these people are missing. That's Consideration.

Put it this way, honestly your here to watch videos. Without this website WHO would be your source and where else could you obtain 80% of these videos. I mean alot of these are some Legit shit!! you are here to enjoy, get some blood pumping, or just relax. I can almost bet you have a spare 5$ in your pocket to spend. I would say Jump on the BandWagon.

[123123]

I say go with only a few porn ads, like its been said before, if you can watch people getting blown up and shot you can see a few porn ads which are everywhere anyway and the merchandise idea sounds great. I'd deffinatly buy some ac stuff.

[Mel]

I got my T-shirt.:D

[Scott]

thank you very much everyone for your ideas, keep them coming we would like to hear your opinions!

that T-shirt looks very nice Mel :)

[ianstone]

As a new guy,
I found a lack of merchandising; BUT then there is the costing of items plus postage overseas and wide range of sizes. Pre-order?
Quick sell merchandising, Bumper stickers, air fresheners or gear shift covers, these are quick and cheap to post worldwide, good turnover jacket badges, lapel pins, wrist bands, I wear 3. Memory sticks. Almost anything that will post / ship worldwide cheaply
Pay for the service, X dollars a month. OK ,but, there are sites/groups I cannot enter to talk to friends because there private. Two tier membership or as I do, try to provide threads to AC to earn the right to go on private sites.
I donate, because I like the AC site and the friends i have made and I can get involved.
Acquisition of more up to date videos, that's hard to do. My photo albums are quite good for a new member. If I get any good new videos AC will be first to know.
Advertising, around here they all cry recession.
Monthly / Weekly online newsletter, with facts features and humour, this would give members a quick weekly or monthly compilation of the most read stories.

[Skoob]

Who personally pays for the server each month? Please PM me if you get the chance.
Thanks.

[daboy233]

get advertising that is RELATED to what the viewers are viewing. solder of fortune magazine, tactical tailor, blackhawk gear, gun magazines, more military gear brands..........email the company's and show them a fancy graph with all your net traffic.

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/5/9/633774284127420455-EffectiveAdvertising.jpg

[shikodo]

Hi Guys

I emailed Stark as well on my idea but I thought I'd post it here for feedback. I have a line of military based tees, over 100 cool designs that I think would go over well here and they could make the site some decent revenue. My site is not 100% developed yet but it's on it's way. I have however, attached a few designs to give you an idea of what type of stuff it is. Any feedback is welcome. I really would like to help out.

[rocky5544]

Sorry for the late reply...

Personally, paying to view what I enjoy is not an issue. I ran a website for years by myself and the cost was enourmous. We added a clicksor advertisement link to all of our pages and the cost to me went way down. Some users complained about it due to it redirecting you to a temp screen when you clicked on something, but once people got use to clicking on skip this add, the complaints stopped for the most part. But as we grew, it got to a point I had to decide to make it a pay for viewing site. I kept the fee low, $5 a month, but I lost a lot of members. But even with the loss, my site grew and the bills were paid. Over time we added contests for a free month, allowed people to recruit in exchange for a free month, and at the end of the day it worked. When I passed the site on to another guy, we were up to over 1/2 million viewers a month. We never advertised, never put anything on youtube, we just allowed those who appreciated the site to pass our name on.

My suggestion is this.

Make the site a no view without registering which it may be already. You allow non member viewing only if they download a revenue generating toolbar. We all know what those are.

Second, keep the site basically as it is for free but add an extra section for paid members only. The paying members get the most current videos and the best ones. Screw the people who whine about a charge. I know there are some who can not afford a fee and I feel for them as I have been there done that. But the fact is most can, they just want everyone else to do the work, pay the bills, and give them hand outs. They will tell you that if you charge, they will go watch it elsewhere. Let them go view it there. If the other sites were that good, they would already be there and not be here wasting bandwith. Most people, with the exception of those who can not afford another bill, who whine about paying a minimal fee are deadbeats who usually offer nothing to the site anyways. They take up space, let them leave.

Third, load your videos to a site called Loomba. PM me if you need the link. They pay you based on views. There are people on that site making a grand a month. Now you will not make that right away. but as your site grows, more people view your videos, you will make money. even if it is only a 100 bucks to start, it helps. By the time I gave away my site, we were making no less than 500 bucks a month from loomba. There are also other video hosting sites out there that pay, but it is best to choose one and use it exclusively so the revenue is centered on that site for a higher payout.

Add the merchandise. Even if you only make a few bucks, it helps. Over time you will make more but you have to be patient enough to get to that point.

As soon as you set up a VIP area where donations go to a membership, count me in. Unlike some others, I realize it takes not only time to get the stuff you have here, it takes money. My religious beliefs would preclude me from visiting this site if porn was all over it, but others may choose to not visit for the same thing just other reasons. Best to stay away from smut and stay legit as you are now. Clicksor made us decent money, maybe it can help you. The redirects are a pain, but it does not hurt that much as people get used to it and click on the skip add button. Check out loomba though, it is a legit way to make money on videos you are already posting plus it lets you use their bandwith to post videos, not your own.

Good luck and look forward to your decision!

[pickup]

the link to this forum on the frontpage is not working.

i think 5$ per month is ok for the most users, i would pay this.

Agree with you 100%. That is not much money for 1 month and it keeps the trolls and troublemakers away. I think they would not pay for this side only for theire stupid comments.

[daboy233]

if your going to charge make it free for veterans......because i am cheap :)

[Scott]

Thanks you so much for your post rocky5544 , you have very nice ideas and experience in websites, some ideas there that have not been thought of before and could certanly help. Over time we're be discussing the ideas in the private forums and see what steps to take.

daboy233 - im sure for veterans it wouold be free bro no doubt about that :)

We have a VIP Area here already, people can earn the VIP badge by helping out with the community/helping members out, having a great sense of humour making people laugh, posting on the forums and uploading videos...
at the minute thats how you get the VIP badge once you have it you'll have a bigger upload limit, access to the private VIP Area and a option to download videos from here.

[death2mooj]

Shit just open up a little store, not just limited to apacheclips items but general military and other "kick-ass-ery" , get the throwback support twat shirts and what not.... there is a market for it

[Scott]

we use to have a store open with T-shirts and mugs, it didn't work out as we though it would( not enough purchases /lack of knowledge we had for selling point to the viewers here. :))

[Stark]

lol nice one first time I see that T

[Stark]

Guys all amazing ideas I am going through them one by one - atm I am looking into accounts I may contact some of you personal.

THANK YOU ALL

[JOG12]

I wish I can donate, but my parents won't let me.

Stark, another thing, where can I buy that AC shirt? I want one and am willing to pay. The one shirt that shows the logo and says, "Supporting the war on terror,"

[JOG12]

And one last thing, I would literally donate $50 to $100 to this site. That is how much I love this site. Where else am I going to watch rare combat vids? My night time needs to be entertaining!

[Stark]

heya,

I am working to bring the shop back - should be done very soon