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cromagnumman
05-22-2011, 01:08 PM
Found this interesting article on web with china flexing its noodles


http://tarpley.net/2011/05/21/us-pakistan-near-open-war-chinese-ultimatum-warns-washington-against-attack/

US, Pakistan Near Open War; Chinese Ultimatum Warns Washington Against Attack
[Translate]

Webster G. Tarpley, Ph.D.
TARPLEY.net
May 20, 2011

China has officially put the United States on notice that Washington’s planned attack on Pakistan will be interpreted as an act of aggression against Beijing. This blunt warning represents the first known strategic ultimatum received by the United States in half a century, going back to Soviet warnings during the Berlin crisis of 1958-1961, and indicates the grave danger of general war growing out of the US-Pakistan confrontation.
“Any Attack on Pakistan Would be Construed as an Attack on China”

Responding to reports that China has asked the US to respect Pakistan’s sovereignty in the aftermath of the Bin Laden operation, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Jiang Yu used a May 19 press briefing to state Beijing’s categorical demand that the “sovereignty and territorial integrity of Pakistan must be respected.” According to Pakistani diplomatic sources cited by the Times of India, China has “warned in unequivocal terms that any attack on Pakistan would be construed as an attack on China.” This ultimatum was reportedly delivered at the May 9 China-US strategic dialogue and economic talks in Washington, where the Chinese delegation was led by Vice Prime Minister Wang Qishan and State Councilor Dai Bingguo.1 Chinese warnings are implicitly backed up by that nation’s nuclear missiles, including an estimated 66 ICBMs, some capable of striking the United States, plus 118 intermediate-range missiles, 36 submarine-launched missiles, and numerous shorter-range systems.

Support from China is seen by regional observers as critically important for Pakistan, which is otherwise caught in a pincers between the US and India: “If US and Indian pressure continues, Pakistan can say ‘China is behind us. Don’t think we are isolated, we have a potential superpower with us,’” Talat Masood, a political analyst and retired Pakistani general, told AFP.2

The Chinese ultimatum came during the visit of Pakistani Prime Minister Gilani in Beijing, during which the host government announced the transfer of 50 state-of-the-art JF-17 fighter jets to Pakistan, immediately and without cost.3 Before his departure, Gilani had stressed the importance of the Pakistan-China alliance, proclaiming: “We are proud to have China as our best and most trusted friend. And China will always find Pakistan standing beside it at all times….When we speak of this friendship as being taller than the Himalayas and deeper than the oceans it truly captures the essence of our relationship.”4 These remarks were greeted by whining from US spokesmen, including Idaho Republican Senator Risch.

The simmering strategic crisis between the United States and Pakistan exploded with full force on May 1, with the unilateral and unauthorized US commando raid alleged to have killed the phantomatic Osama bin Laden in a compound at Abottabad, a flagrant violation of Pakistan’s national sovereignty. The timing of this military stunt designed to inflame tensions between the two countries had nothing to do with any alleged Global War on Terror, and everything to do with the late March visit to Pakistan of Prince Bandar, the Saudi Arabian National Security Council chief. This visit had resulted in a de facto alliance between Islamabad and Riyadh, with Pakistan promising troops to put down any US-backed color revolution in the kingdom, while extending nuclear protection to the Saudis, thus making them less vulnerable to US extortion threats to abandon the oil-rich monarchy to the tender mercies of Tehran. A joint move by Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to break out of the US empire, whatever one may think of these regimes, would represent a fatal blow for the fading US empire in South Asia.

As for the US claims concerning the supposed Bin Laden raid of May 1, they are a mass of hopeless contradictions which changes from day to day. An analysis of this story is best left to literary critics and writers of theatrical reviews. The only solid and uncontestable fact which emerges is that Pakistan is the leading US target — thus intensifying the anti-Pakistan US policy which has been in place since Obama’s infamous December 2009 West Point speech.
Gilani: Full Force Retaliation to Defend Pakistan’s Strategic Assets

The Chinese warning to Washington came on the heels of Gilani’s statement to the Pakistan Parliament declaring: “Let no one draw any wrong conclusions. Any attack against Pakistan’s strategic assets, whether overt or covert, will find a matching response…. Pakistan reserves the right to retaliate with full force. No one should underestimate the resolve and capability of our nation and armed forces to defend our sacred homeland.”5 A warning of full force retaliation from a nuclear power such as Pakistan needs to be taken seriously, even by the hardened aggressors of the Obama regime.

The strategic assets Gilani is talking about are the Pakistani nuclear forces, the key to the country’s deterrent strategy against possible aggression by India, egged on by Washington in the framework of the US-India nuclear cooperation accord. The US forces in Afghanistan have not been able to conceal their extensive planning for attempts to seize or destroy Pakistan’s nuclear bombs and warheads. According to a 2009 Fox News report, “The United States has a detailed plan for infiltrating Pakistan and securing its mobile arsenal of nuclear warheads if it appears the country is about to fall under the control of the Taliban, Al Qaeda or other Islamic extremists.” This plan was developed by General Stanley McChrystal when he headed the US Joint Special Operations Command at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. JSOC, the force reportedly involved in the Bin Laden operation. is composed of Army Delta Force, Navy SEALs and “a high-tech special intelligence unit known as Task Force Orange.” “Small units could seize [Pakistan’s nukes], disable them, and then centralize them in a secure location,” claimed a source quoted by Fox.6
Obama Has Already Approved Sneak Attack on Pakistan’s Nukes

According to the London Sunday Express, Obama has already approved an aggressive move along these lines: “US troops will be deployed in Pakistan if the nation’s nuclear installations come under threat from terrorists out to avenge the killing of Osama Bin Laden… The plan, which would be activated without President Zardari’s consent, provoked an angry reaction from Pakistan officials… Barack Obama would order troops to parachute in to protect key nuclear missile sites. These include the air force’s central Sargodha HQ, home base for nuclear-capable F-16 combat aircraft and at least 80 ballistic missiles.” According to a US official, “The plan is green lit and the President has already shown he is willing to deploy troops in Pakistan if he feels it is important for national security.”7

Extreme tension over this issue highlights the brinksmanship and incalculable folly of Obama’s May 1 unilateral raid, which might easily have been interpreted by the Pakistanis as the long-awaited attack on their nuclear forces. According to the New York Times, Obama knew very well he was courting immediate shooting war with Pakistan, and “insisted that the assault force hunting down Osama bin Laden last week be large enough to fight its way out of Pakistan if confronted by hostile local police officers and troops.”
The Shooting Has Already Started

The shooting between US and Pakistani forces escalated on Tuesday May 17, when a US NATO helicopter violated Pakistani airspace in Waziristan. Pakistani forces showed heightened alert status, and opened fire immediately, with the US helicopter shooting back. Two soldiers at a Pakistani check post on the border in the Datta Khel area were wounded.8

Possible Pakistani retaliation for this border incursion came in Peshawar on Friday, May 20, when a car bomb apparently targeted a 2-car US consulate convoy, but caused no American deaths or injuries. One Pakistani bystander was killed, and several wounded. In other intelligence warfare, Ary One television reported the name of the CIA station chief in Islamabad, the second top US resident spook there to have his cover blown in six months.
US Envoy Grossman Rejects Pakistani Calls To Stop Border Violations

US Special Representative to Afghanistan and Pakistan Marc Grossman, the replacement for the late Richard Holbrooke, on May 19 arrogantly rejected Pakistani calls for guarantees that no more Abottabad-style unilateral operations would be mounted in Pakistan.9 In refusing to offer such assurances, Grossman claimed that Pakistani officials had never demanded respect for their border in recent years.10

In the midst of this strategic crisis, India has gone ahead with inherently provocative scheduled military maneuvers targeting Pakistan. This is the “Vijayee Bhava” (Be Victorious) drill, held in the Thar desert of north Rajastan,. This atomic-biological-chemical Blitzkrieg drill involves the Second Armored Corps, “considered to be the most crucial of the Indian Army’s three principal strike formations tasked with virtually cutting Pakistan in two during a full-fledged war.”11
The Nation: A CIA-RAW-Mossad Pseudo-Taliban Countergang

One way to provide the provocation needed to justify a US-Indian attack on Pakistan would be through an increase in terrorist actions attributable to the so-called Taliban. According to the mainstream Pakistani media, the CIA, the Israeli Mossad, and the Indian RAW (Research and Analysis Wing) have created their own version of the Taliban in the form of a terrorist countergang which they control and direct. According to one account, “Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) operatives have infiltrated the Taliban and Al-Qaeda networks, and have created their own Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) force in order to destabilize Pakistan.” The former Punjab Regional Commander of the Pakistani Inter-Service Intelligence (ISI), retired Brigadier General Aslam Ghuman, commented: “During my visit to the US, I learned that the Israeli spy agency Mossad, in connivance with Indian agency RAW, under the direct supervision of CIA, planned to destabilize Pakistan at any cost.”12 Was this countergang responsible for last week’s double bombing in Waziristan, which killed 80 paramilitary police?

According to the same account, Russian intelligence “disclosed that CIA contractor Raymond Davis and his network had provided Al-Qaeda operatives with chemical, nuclear and biological weapons, so that US installations may be targeted and Pakistan be blamed….” Davis, a JSOC veteran himself, was arrested for the murder of two ISI agents, but then released by the Pakistani government after a suspicious hue and cry by the State Department.
CIA Claims The New Al Qaeda Boss Lives in Waziristan

If the US needs a further pretext for additional raids, it will also be easy to cite the alleged presence in Waziristan of Saif al-Adel, now touted by the CIA as bin Laden’s likely successor as boss of al Qaeda.13 It is doubtless convenient for Obama’s aggressive intentions that Saif al-Adel can be claimed to reside so close to what is now the hottest border in the world, and not in Finsbury or Flatbush.

In the wake of the unauthorized May 1 US raid, the Pakistani military chief General Kayani had issued his own warning that similar “misadventures” could not be repeated, while announcing that US personnel inside Pakistan would be sharply reduced. In the estimate of one ISI source, there are currently about 7,000 CIA operatives in country, many of them unknown to the Pakistani government. US-Pakistan intelligence sharing has reportedly been downgraded. In response to Kayani’s moves, the CIA limited hangout operation known as Wikileaks once again showed its real nature by attempting to discredit the Pakistan commander with dubious US cable reports that he had demanded more Predator drone attacks, not fewer, in recent years.

Especially since Obama’s West Point speech, the CIA has used Predator drone attacks to slaughter civilians with the goal of fomenting civil war inside Pakistan, leading to a breakup of the country along the ethnic lines of Punjab, Sind, Baluchistan, and Pushtunistan. The geopolitical goal is to destroy Pakistan’s potential to be the energy corridor between Iran and China. Selig Harrison has emerged as a top US advocate for Baluchistan succession.

Since May 1, six reported US Predator drones attacks have slain some 42 Pakistani civilians, goading public opinion into a frenzy of anti-US hatred. In response, a joint session of the Pakistani parliament voted unanimously on May 14 to demand an end to American missile strikes, calling on the government to cut NATO’s supply line to Afghanistan if the attacks should continue.14 Since the Karachi to Khyber Pass supply line carries as much as two thirds of the supplies needed by the Afghanistan invaders, such a cutoff would cause chaos among the NATO forces. All of this points to the inherent insanity of provoking war with the country your supply line runs through.
US Wants to Use Taliban Boss Mullah Omar Against Pakistan

The State Department dropped all preconditions for negotiating with the Taliban back in February, and the US is now reported by the Washington Post to be talking with envoys of Mullah Omar, the legendary one-eyed leader of the Quetta Shura or Taliban ruling council. It is apparent that the US is offering the Taliban an alliance against Pakistan. US regional envoy Grossman is hostile to the Pakistanis, but when it comes to the Taliban he has been nicknamed “Mr. Reconciliation.”15 By contrast, the US is said to be determined to assassinate the head of the Haqqani network using a Bin Laden-type raid. The Pakistanis are equally determined to keep the Haqqani as an ally.

If China stands behind Pakistan, then Russia might be said to stand behind China. Looking forward to the upcoming June 15 meeting of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, Chinese President Hu praised Sino-Russian relations as being “at an unprecedented high point,” with an “obvious strategic ingredient.” In a press conference this week, Russian President Medvedev was obliged indirectly to acknowledge that the much-hyped Obama “reset” with Russia had amounted to very little, since the US ABM missile program in Romania and the rest of eastern Europe, so obviously directed against Russia, means that the START treaty is of dubious value, thus raising the specter of a “new Cold War.” Given the NATO assault on Libya, there would be no UN resolution against Syria, said Medvedev. Putin has been right all along, and Medvedev is trying to imitate Putin to salvage some chance of remaining in power.
Are We in July 1914?

The crisis leading to World War I began with the Sarajevo assassinations of June 28, 1914, but the first major declaration of war did not occur until August 1. In the interim month of July 1914, large parts of European public opinion retreated into a dreamlike trance, an idyllic la-la land of elegiac illusion, even as the deadly crisis gathered momentum. Something similar can be seen today. Many Americans fondly imagine that the alleged death of Bin Laden marks the end of the war on terror and the Afghan War. Instead, the Bin Laden operation has clearly ushered in a new strategic emergency. Forces which had opposed the Iraq war, from MSNBC to many left liberals of the peace movement, are variously supporting Obama’s bloody aggression in Libya, or even celebrating him as a more effective warmonger than Bush-Cheney because of his supposed success at the expense of Bin Laden. In reality, if there were ever a time to mobilize to stop a new and wider war, this is it.

NeilDunne
05-22-2011, 05:09 PM
So China want to get into this game too. I have to say i never thought of India as much of an ally.. but then again i completely forgot their war with Pakistan. They have a large army too so i guess a tag team between a coalition force of European forces and U.S then India and Australia as ally's would be quite a good force.. at least we know we won't be standing alone

cromagnumman
05-22-2011, 06:05 PM
Heres some more info on subject

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3914bd36-8467-11e0-afcb-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1N7a0ycdF

Pakistan turns to China for naval base

By Farhan Bokhari in Islamabad and Kathrin Hille in Beijing

Published: May 22 2011 13:22 | Last updated: May 22 2011 19:46

Pakistan has asked China to build a naval base at its south-western port of Gwadar and expects the Chinese navy to maintain a regular presence there, a plan likely to alarm both India and the US.

“We have asked our Chinese brothers to please build a naval base at Gwadar,” Chaudhary Ahmed Mukhtar, Pakistan’s defence minister, told the Financial Times, confirming that the request was conveyed to China during a visit last week by Yusuf Raza Gilani, Pakistan’s prime minister.
EDITOR’S CHOICE
Militants target aircraft at Karachi naval base - May-22
Islamabad splurges on defence hardware - May-22
Pakistan ISI in spotlight over Mumbai raid - May-22
In depth: Pakistan - Nov-20
Show of support as China hosts Pakistan PM - May-19
Opinion: America must hug Pakistan ever closer - May-18

Hitherto, China has shied away from moves that might alienate the US and Beijing’s neighbours, such as India, Malaysia and Indonesia. “China’s rise is a beneficial force for peace and we have no hegemonic ambitions,” said a Chinese official familiar with Beijing’s security policy.

But Christopher Yung, senior research fellow at National Defense University in Washington, said in a recent paper “the nature and degree of China’s access to out-of-area bases will be the ultimate indication and warning” of its eventual intention to become a global military power. A Pentagon official said: “We have questions and concerns about this development and [China’s] intentions. But that is why we believe it is important to have a healthy, stable and continuous military-to-military relationship.”

A senior Pakistani official familiar with Sino-Pakistani discussions on naval co-operation said: “The naval base is something we hope will allow Chinese vessels to regularly visit in [the] future and also use the place for repair and maintenance of their fleet in the [Indian Ocean region].”

Such a foothold would be the first overseas location offering support to the People’s Liberation Army navy for future out-of-area missions and so would be likely to reinforce international concerns over Beijing’s longer-term military ambitions.

“This will definitely be a ‘game changer’ in China’s defence and security relationships,” said Rahul Roy-Chaudhury, a south Asia security expert at the International Institute for Strategic Studies. “The construction of a naval base in Gwadar would provide its own ships and possibly submarines with ‘permanent’ basing rights, along with the possibility of regular patrols and exercises in the Arabian Sea to protect the growing number of Chinese-flagged oil tankers traversing the region to meet its increasing energy demands from the Gulf region.”

As anti-piracy operations in the Gulf of Aden have made the PLA Navy aware that it lacks port access for restocking with food and water, swapping staff and maintenance, the force is lobbying for the construction of foreign bases.

The proposed port could meet some of the PLA navy’s needs but is less aggressive than a Chinese-owned base on foreign soil. The existing commercial port at Gwadar was built by China but is run by the Singapore Port Authority. But it could antagonise India as it comes amid a strengthening of China’s military ties with Pakistan.

During Mr Gilani’s visit last week, Beijing agreed to accelerate delivery of 50 fighter jets to Pakistan

Pakistan’s defence officials are keen for the PLA Navy to build up its presence in the Indian Ocean and the northern Arabia sea, mainly to counterbalance India’s naval forces.

Additional reporting by Daniel Dombey in Washington

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2011. You may share using our article tools. Please don't cut articles from FT.com and redistribute by email or post to the web.

rizzy
05-24-2011, 11:22 PM
I havn't heard about this in any newspaper like the New York Times, the only thing on there is MW3.
Also this sounds like a conspiracy to me, because Pakistan just gave us back the remains of the stealth helo, and if they are so close with China all of a sudden then why would they give back the stealth helo. Also our government doesn't give terrorists WMD's to make it seam like a legit plan if we invade Attack Pakistan. India wouldn't want to invade Pakistan either if China is right next door, because they would get their ass handed to them on a silver platter.

cromagnumman
05-25-2011, 09:27 AM
Read all 3 articles
If u want to be spoon fed here u go boy

http://nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/Politics/19-May-2011/Keep-hands-off-Pakistan-China-tells-US


Keep hands off Pakistan, China tells US
By: Salim Bokhari | Published: May 19, 2011

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Keep hands off Pakistan, China tells US

BEIJING - Telling America to respect Pakistan’s sovereignty, China Wednesday offered Islamabad ‘anything’ it needs to make defence impregnable and revive economy.
This fresh approach would add new dimensions to the already time-tested brotherly bonds between the two brotherly countries in this region. This determination of Chinese leadership was fully demonstrated at the Great Hall of the People where Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani was received by his Chinese counterpart Wen Jiabao. Following the reception ceremonies, they rushed for formal talks.
Wednesday’s discussions were held in three rounds. Firstly, Mr Gilani held 30 minutes one-on-one meeting with Mr Wen Jiabao followed by the respective delegations meeting for over an hour. In the third round, Mr Jiabao met members of the PM’s entourage that lasted for 35 minutes. Mr Wen Jiabao assured his Pakistani counterpart of China’s “all-weather friendship”. “I wish to stress here that no matter what changes might take place in the international landscape, China and Pakistan will remain forever good neighbours, good friends, good partners and good brothers,” Wen said. “I do believe that this visit will give a strong boost to the friendship and cooperation between our two countries and take that friendship and cooperation to a new high.”
The Chinese PM noted the role Pakistan was playing in countering terrorists and said that the international community should not forget the huge sacrifices rendered by Pakistan in the global campaign against terrorism and extremism.
After the talks concluded, an upbeat Mr Gilani held a briefing session with accompanying Pakistani journalists at the State Guest House. He said the Chinese conveyed a clear message to the US that “there should be no harm to the Pakistani sovereignty and the US should understand and appreciate concerns of Pakistan”.
“China supported Pakistan’s cause on its own,” he said, adding: China has asked the US to work with Pakistan in improving their bilateral relations in view of the present scenario.






http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/chinese-cozy-up-pakistanis-5027



The Chinese Cozy Up to the Pakistanis
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Selig S. Harrison
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March 16, 2011

China’s expanding reach is a natural and acceptable accompaniment of its growing power—but only up to a point.

Beijing is understandably challenging a century of U.S. dominance in the Pacific and the South China Sea immediately adjacent to its shores. But the aggressive effort to block Indian hegemony in South Asia, reflected in its growing ties with Pakistan and its territorial claim to the adjacent northeast state of Arunachal Pradesh (for which there is no historical basis) is more ominous.

In contrast to its studied neutrality on the Kashmir issue in past decades, Beijing is now openly supportive of Pakistan and is establishing its economic and political influence both in Pakistan-occupied Azad (Free) Kashmir and in the Himalayan state of Gilgit-Baltistan.

In Azad Kashmir, Chinese investors are taking over local business firms, and in Gilgit-Baltistan, non-combat People’s Liberation Army brigades, working closely with Pakistani engineering and development ventures, are becoming a dominant presence in local affairs. Given the undeveloped state of local social institutions, the impact of the Chinese presence is magnified.

As the supplier of nuclear reactors for the Chasma complex and of fighter aircraft for the Pakistan Air Force, Beijing increasingly rivals the U.S. as a security partner of Pakistan. This partnership is likely to grow in the wake of the CIA rupture with the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI) resulting from the shooting of two Pakistanis by CIA operative Raymond Davis, now languishing in a Lahore prison.

The possibility of a direct armed conflict between India and China appears unlikely, and their economic interchange is growing. But China’s alignment with Pakistan on India-Pakistan issues will make a reduction in tensions between New Delhi and Islamabad more difficult than ever—at a time when the two countries have agreed to resume a dialogue between their two foreign ministers in July.

The two most obvious ways in which New Delhi and Islamabad could ease tensions would be through conventional-force reductions and increased trade. But China’s influence will clearly be on the side of a bigger and better Air Force for Pakistan; and the reversal of its position on Kashmir will further stiffen Pakistan’s resistance to an accommodation.

China does not directly support Islamist forces in Pakistan and fears the spread of Islamist influence to Sinkiang province. By fueling India-Pakistan tensions, however, Beijing plays into the hands of the growing Islamist menace in Pakistan.

To counter what China is doing in Pakistan, the United States should play hardball by supporting the movement for an independent Baluchistan along the Arabian Sea and working with Baluch insurgents to oust the Chinese from their budding naval base at Gwadar. Beijing wants its inroads into Gilgit and Baltistan to be the first step on its way to an Arabian Sea outlet at Gwadar.

The Baluch and their allies in neighboring Sind are embroiled in a bitter struggle with the Pakistan Army and its Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI), which seeks to snuff out Baluch insurgent activity by killing off or jailing known or suspected Baluch independence activities. Amnesty International reported 40 known cases of such “disappearances” in 2010, and at an earlier stage of the crisis, in 2006, 458 cases were pending before the Pakistan Supreme Court in the last days of the Pervez Musharraf regime.

China’s open support for Pakistan on India-Pakistan issues poses a growing threat to the peace in South Asia that adds to the complex dilemmas already facing the U.S. in dealing with its Islamabad “ally”.










http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2011/05/china-to-speed-up-fighter-jets-for.html

China to Speed Up Fighter Jets for Pakistan
Recently, there have been articles all-over-the-place regarding the Sino, US, and Pakistan relations. In addition to the misinformation (one recent article cited the total aid to the Pakistan flood as 28 million, the reality is more than 250 million here and the deployment of four S&R helicopters here)
Most of the articles are so native they are entertaining. Than again, why let facts get in the way of a "good analyses".


Here is an example of an "politically fueled" write up -- one should not draw a conclusion based on an on-going jet project to a complex geo-politic theater of South Asia. It is advised that not to confuse public display due to internal pressure vs long term geo-political reality on the ground.

China to Speed Up Fighter Jets for Pakistan
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704083904576333192239624926.html

By JEREMY PAGE

BEIJING—China has agreed to provide 50 more JF-17 fighter jets to Pakistan on an "expedited" basis, a spokesman for the Pakistani air force said, one of the most concrete illustrations yet of how China could fill the vacuum if the U.S. scales down its aid to Pakistan following the raid that killed al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.

The agreement to accelerate supply of the jointly developed jets, the first 50 of which are being assembled in Pakistan, came as Pakistan's Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani held talks in Beijing during a visit that he has used to portray China as an alternative source of military and civilian aid.

The air-force spokesman, a high-ranking officer who declined to be identified by name, said the deal had been reached during Mr. Gilani's four-day visit to China, which concludes Friday following a meeting with Chinese President Hu Jintao.

"We're getting the 50 jets, on top of the ones we already have. Something has been agreed in Beijing, so they'll be expedited," he said, declining to give further details.

Mr. Gilani's visit was arranged long before bin Laden's death raised questions about Pakistan's efforts to hunt down the al Qaeda leader, and the trip is ostensibly to mark the 60th anniversary of bilateral relations on Saturday.

But as political pressure mounts in the U.S. for a review of aid to Pakistan, Mr. Gilani has used his visit to highlight his country's long and increasingly close relationship with China, which he described Tuesday as Pakistan's "best friend".

China is Pakistan's biggest arms supplier and its third-biggest trading partner.

The JF-17 is a potent symbol of the two countries' friendship, and a key part of Pakistan's plans to upgrade its aging fleet of American-supplied F-16s and French-made Mirages and to try to match the air power of neighboring India—its arch rival.

The U.S. has repeatedly delayed delivery of F-16s to Pakistan, and has insisted that they not be used against India, with which Washington is now cultivating a strategic partnership to counterbalance Beijing's clout in Asia.

China and Pakistan began developing the relatively cheap multipurpose fighter in 1999 and Pakistan, which has said it wants 250 of them altogether, inducted its first squadron of JF-17s last year, and a second earlier this year.

The air-force spokesman said he did not know whether the second batch of 50 jets would be assembled in Pakistan or delivered whole from China.

He also declined to discuss whether they would be the basic so-calledBlock I models, like the first batch, or an upgraded Block II version, which military aviation experts say could include radar-evading stealth technology—potentially giving Pakistan that capability for the first time.

Questions also remain over the new jets' engines. The first batch were all fitted with Russian ones, but Russian officials have expressed reservations about supplying more of those engines as Pakistan and China have been marketing the JF-17 in many of Russia's traditional markets.

China has been developing its own engine, but it is still undergoing tests, military aviation experts say.

The Pakistani Embassy declined to provide further details about the deal, and a spokeswoman for Mr. Gilani did not respond to repeated phone calls. China's Foreign and Defense Ministries both declined to comment, as did China's air force and the Chinese company which jointly produces the JF-17 with Pakistan.

China has hailed the strength and longevity of the relationship this week, praising Pakistan's efforts to combat terrorism, and supporting its response to the U.S. raid. Wen Jiabao, the premier, said China and Pakistan would remain friends "forever" when he met Mr. Gilani on Wednesday.

However, Beijing's rhetoric has been more reserved than Pakistan's, reflecting a desire not to antagonize the U.S. or India or to become too entangled in Pakistan's domestic and international problems.

Nonetheless, diplomats and analysts say China sees an opportunity in the aftermath of bin Laden's death to enhance its economic and military influence in Pakistan with a long-term view to containing India's rise, and opening new trade routes to Central Asia and the Middle East.

China and Pakistan are also discussing plans for Pakistan to buy China's more advanced FC-20 fighter, also known as the J-10, Ahmad Mukhtar, Pakistan's defense minister told reporters Wednesday.

Pakistan's efforts to showcase its close ties with China are causing consternation in the U.S.

During a hearing of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Tuesday, Republican Senator Jim Risch of Idaho expressed frustration at Mr. Gilani's statement that China was Pakistan's "best friend" despite billions of dollars of U.S. aid over the last decade.

"It just—it just doesn't make sense...Because, frankly, I'm—I'm getting tired of it, and I think Americans are getting tired of it as far as shoveling money in there [to] people who just flat don't like us," he said, according to a transcript.

At a hearing of the House Foreign Affairs Committee last week, Congressman Michael McCaul (R) of Texas raised particular concern about whether U.S. military aid had been diverted into the JF-17 program.

kubala1014
05-25-2011, 09:38 AM
I agree with cromagnumman. The valuable part of that helicopter wasn't the tail itself, but the skin covering the airframe. I wouldn't be afraid to put money down that China already is trying to reverse engineer that material. And that is about as damaging as it can get.

Thanks for the articles, I've been following the Sino-Pak relations for a while now. The Pakistanis see it as a way to counter balance any US-Indian relations. These aren't conspiracy theories. Superpowers have been vying for control of this region ever since the 'Great Game'.

If Obama keeps trying to play both sides against the middle, eventually both sides are going to give up and go elsewhere (also exemplified by Obama's Israel-Palestine speech... by pandering to both sides you lose both)

rizzy
05-25-2011, 06:04 PM
Go to military.com and look up the article in which The chinese general comes to the US telling Adm. Mullen that China's
army, "Is no match for US."

In this article you can clearly see the Chinese military is trying to make up for lost decades in their military equipement.
They wish to be friendly with our military. I am not disagreeing with the fact that China could be a threat to us, but if they were it would be economically. They do indeed have a large Army but when it comes down to it, initiating war with the US is one of the worst idea's for China right now. We would inflict massive casualties on their forces and then if they were to proceed with a Cold war with us, we would impose sanctions. This would mean that China's main moneymaker: the US, would stop production over there as well as other NATO countries presumably and China would be isolated. Kind of like in the Cold War with Russia, Russia was isolated in the Eastern block and all the western countries flourished while the east countries eventually fell apart.

cromagnumman
05-25-2011, 07:40 PM
i read the article already....so what does that have to do with pakistan in the states the nippers know they cant fuck with US on home soil, but by fucking with our allies and interests yes. plus if they ever pull the manufacturing plug it would really complicate things. by sources what the fuck do u mean??....are u trying to bait me or something, or are u just a troll please dont messge me with baseless posts
Here is another one just so u shut up

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-05-20/news/29565072_1_pakistan-s-ambassador-pakistan-china-pakistan-media

China asks US to respect Pak's sovereignty, independence
May 20, 2011, 04.59am IST
Tags:

Washington|
US

BEIJING/ISLAMABAD: China on Thursday said the international community "must respect" Pakistan's sovereignty, tacitly confirming reports that it has asked the US not to violate Islamabad's territorial integrity, following the killing of Osama bin Laden.

Asked about reports that China has asked US during its recently concluded strategic dialogue with Washington to respect Pakistan's sovereignty as Islamabad came under heavy pressure after bin Laden's killing, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson, Jiang Yu told media here that "sovereignty and territorial integrity of Pakistan must be respected."

"We believe that Pakistan has made great contribution to international counter-terrorism efforts, as well as huge sacrifices. The international community should understand and support Pakistan's efforts to restore national stability and develop its economy," she said.
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According to Pakistan's state run APP news agency, Gilani told Pakistan media here last night after his meeting with Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao that "China supported Pakistan's cause on its own."

Gilani said the Chinese conveyed a clear message to the US that "there should be no harm to the Pakistani sovereignty and the US should understand and appreciate concerns of Pakistan."

China asked the US to work with Pakistan in improving their bilateral relations in view of the present scenario, he said.

Chinese leadership conveyed to the US that Pakistan should be helped and its honour should be upheld keeping in view its sacrifices in war on terror, he said.

He quoted Wen as saying that Pakistan faced challenges in the wake of killing of bin Laden and Chinese leadership was categorical in supporting Pakistan's stance as well as its concerns over national honour and sovereignty.

China has "warned in unequivocal terms that any attack on Pakistan would be construed as an attack on China", The News daily quoted diplomatic sources as saying.

The warning was formally conveyed by the Chinese foreign minister at last week's China-US strategic dialogue and economic talks in Washington, it said.

For his part, Gilani reiterated Pakistan's support for its policy of 'One China' and said his country fully supports China on the issues of Taiwan and Tibet.

During her briefing today Jiang skirted questions about Pakistan-China signing new defence agreements. Asked about assertions by Pakistan's Ambassador to China Masood Khan before Gilani's arrival that new defence deals would be signed, she said the two sides signed agreements in economy, technology, finance and energy resources.

"As to specific cooperation, please refer to relevant companies," she said, adding that China is actively implementing pledges to help pro-disaster reconstruction and exerting utmost to help tide over difficulties."

eaglethebeagle
05-28-2011, 01:23 AM
China are masters at doing shit that is stupid for relations with the US and yet never get called out for it.

Look at recently they floated their navy to observe the libya operations.

This article last year......

WASHINGTON — The White House said Monday that it expects China to respect international law following an incident in which five Chinese ships shadowed and maneuvered dangerously close to a U.S. Navy vessel in the South China Sea, according to the Pentagon.
White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said the U.S. has protested the action. The United States will continue to operate in those international waters, he said, and the Chinese must observe international law.
"On March 8, 2009, five Chinese vessels shadowed and aggressively maneuvered in dangerously close proximity to USNS Impeccable, in an apparent coordinated effort to harass the U.S. ocean surveillance ship while it was conducting routine operations in international waters," the Pentagon said.
The Impeccable sprayed one ship with water from fire hoses to force it away. Despite the force of the water, Chinese crew members stripped to their underwear and continued closing within 25 feet, the department said.
Defense officials in the administration said Sunday's incident followed several days of "increasingly aggressive" acts by Chinese ships in the region.
The Chinese ships included a Chinese Navy intelligence collection ship, a Bureau of Maritime Fisheries Patrol Vessel, a State Oceanographic Administration patrol vessel, and two small Chinese-flagged trawlers, officials said.
"The Chinese vessels surrounded USNS Impeccable, two of them closing to within 50 feet, waving Chinese flags and telling Impeccable to leave the area," defense officials said in the statement.
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"Because the vessels' intentions were not known, Impeccable sprayed its fire hoses at one of the vessels in order to protect itself," the Defense statement said. "The Chinese crew members disrobed to their underwear and continued closing to within 25 feet."
Emergency stop
Impeccable crew radioed to tell the Chinese ships that it was leaving the area and requested a safe path to navigate, the Pentagon said.
But shortly afterward, two of the Chinese ships stopped directly ahead of the Impeccable, forcing it to an emergency stop in order to avoid collision because the Chinese had dropped pieces of wood in the water directly in front of Impeccable's path, the Pentagon said.
Defense officials said the incident took place in international waters in the South China Sea, about 75 miles south of Hainan Island.

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"The unprofessional maneuvers by Chinese vessels violated the requirement under international law to operate with due regard for the rights and safety of other lawful users of the ocean," said Marine Maj. Stewart Upton, a Pentagon spokesman.
"We expect Chinese ships to act responsibly and refrain from provocative activities that could lead to miscalculation or a collision at sea, endangering vessels and the lives of U.S. and Chinese mariners," Upton added.
Military-to-military consultations resumed
The incident came just a week after China and the U.S. resumed military-to-military consultations following a five-month suspension over American arms sales to Taiwan.
It also comes as Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi is due in Washington this week to meet with U.S. officials.
And it brings to mind the first foreign policy crisis that former President George Bush suffered with Beijing shortly after he took office — China's forced landing of a spy plane and seizure of the crew in April of 2001.
The Pentagon said the incident came after several other incidents involving the Impeccable and another U.S. vessel Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday.
It described those as the following:
On Wednesday, a Chinese Bureau of Fisheries Patrol vessel used a high-intensity spotlight to illuminate the entire length of the ocean surveillance ship USNS Victorious several times as it was operating in the Yellow Sea, about 125 nautical miles from China's coast, the Pentagon said, adding that the Chinese ship Victorious' bow at a range of about 1400 yards in darkness without notice or warning. The next day, a Chinese Y-12 maritime surveillance aircraft conducted 12 fly-bys of Victorious at an altitude of about 400 feet and a range of 500 yards.
On Thursday, a Chinese frigate approached USNS Impeccable without warning and crossed its bow at a range of approximately 100 yards, the Pentagon said. This was followed less than two hours later by a Chinese Y-12 aircraft conducting 11 fly-bys of Impeccable at an altitude of 600 feet and a range from 100-300 feet. The frigate then crossed Impeccable's bow yet again, this time at a range of approximately 400-500 yards without rendering courtesy or notice of her intentions.
On Saturday, a Chinese intelligence collection ship challenged USNS Impeccable over bridge-to-bridge radio, calling her operations illegal and directing Impeccable to leave the area or "suffer the consequences."
© 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

The US should stop all manufacturing of American products in China and see how well their economy works then. Then with all those jobs back to the US workers magic we have employment of workers and our economy going again.


Fucking rocket science right but nobody has the ball to make it happen.

What is the worst that can happen Chine goes into economic depression from loss of millions of jobs and their people start to revolt and cause chaos which then spirals their government into turmoil fearfull of what they see happening in the mid east? Then they worry we help their citizens fight their leaders as well.


Sounds all good to me..........we need a president with balls.

InsurgentHunter
05-28-2011, 03:31 AM
WW3?

Fuck lets just prepare for World War 3, 2012 seems like a good time to get start. Secure Hong Kong and nuke any other major cities to set an example. They're over a billion communist in this world. We may have to sacrifice millions of American and Chinese lives but, it would be worth if it in the long run, the world becomes totally democratic. We have to show them that the freedom is worth dying for, and that we as Americans are willing to make the sacrifice.

Oni
05-28-2011, 06:02 AM
Would really like to see china try to win a war against america... love to see them try against NATO. while were destroying china we should start on NK...

bbatz
05-28-2011, 06:09 AM
Well what wouls have China to get from it? Ofcourse, they may try to build stuff etc, being present to the world, but I'd bet they wouldn't want a direct war like all out war...

They have so many business with americans and NATO countries, war with them would be economic suicide for China...what they want is to have more money and business, therefore gaining influence etc, by economic-non-bellical ways

Oni
05-28-2011, 06:11 AM
probably send a "volunteer" army like they did in korea.

cromagnumman
05-30-2011, 09:43 AM
more info it just keep coming
http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=241634


China is adamant that the West “must respect” Pakistan's sovereignty.

The message was delivered during Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Gilani's recent four-day visit to Beijing, which celebrated no less than six decades of strategic relations --involving, among other issues, nuclear collaboration and support over the ultra-sensitive Kashmir question.

The Times of India reconstructed the message as a stark warning that: “any attack on Pakistan would be construed as an attack on China.”

Chinese diplomacy dwells on too much sophistication for such a crude outburst; but even enveloped in red velvet, the message -- in view of the non-stop U.S. drone war over Pakistan's tribal areas, not to mention the “get Osama” raid in Abbottabad -- was indeed a bombshell.

Whatever the merit of charges that Islamabad helps some Taliban factions -- such as the Haqqani network in North Waziristan -- the Pakistani politico-security-military establishment has had enough of being treated by Washington as a mere satrapy, or worse, a bunch of punks.

Pakistani popular opinion, from urban centers to tribal areas, roundly abhors Washington's drone war. And even before the Navy SEALS raid to get Osama bin Laden the sordid Raymond Davis case was configured as the ultimate humiliation.

Davis, a CIA asset, shot two Pakistanis dead in broad daylight in Lahore; an American “extraction team” killed another one who was trying to save Davis from arrest; and then the CIA paid blood money to finally extract Davis out of the country. Sovereignty? What sovereignty?

Strategic ports

There's frantic spin in the U.S. especially among the right that Pakistan must be taught a lesson because it “harbors terrorists”. The mighty conceptual leap would be for these righteous, misinformed, armchair warriors to advocate teaching China a lesson.

Gwadar is an ultra-strategic deepwater port in the Arabian Sea, in Pakistani Balochistan, not far from the Iranian border and only 520 km away from the hyper-strategic Strait of Hormuz. Beijing financed close to 80 percent of the construction of the port via the China Harbor Engineering Company Group. The port is currently managed by Singapore. The lease will end soon -- and it will go to China.

Islamabad now wants the Chinese to build a naval base at Gwadar. That will be a monster geopolitical earthquake in a crucial node of “Pipelineistan” as well as the New Great Game in Eurasia.

Sleepy (for now) Gwadar has been building up for years as the key node of the IP (Iran-Pakistan) pipeline, which used to be the IPI (Iran-Pakistan-India) or “peace” pipeline, before New Delhi got cold feet. For Washington, the prospect of a steel umbilical cord linking Iran and Pakistan has always been anathema.

What Washington wants -- and has wanted badly since the Bill Clinton years -- is the TAP (Trans-Afghan) pipeline, which then became TAPI (Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan-India). Even millennial rocks in the Hindu Kush know TAP or TAPI will only be built when the war is over in Afghanistan, with the Taliban an inevitable part of the government.

In this ongoing, epic IP (or IPI) versus TAP (or TAPI) battle, what is never mentioned is that the winner after all may be... China.

New Delhi knows a pipeline crossing Afghanistan is, well, a pipe dream. But still it has not committed itself to IPI -- in part because of relentless Washington pressure, in part because it does not trust Pakistan.

China, on the other hand, has already proposed itself for an IP expansion. This means that starting at Gwadar, another pipeline would be built, by the Chinese of course, crossing Balochistan and then following the Karakoram highway northwards all the way to Xinjiang, China's Far West.

Those who have already traveled the spectacular, 1,400 km-long Karakoram highway from Kashgar in Xinjiang, Western China, via the Khunjerab pass to, of all places, Abbottabad in Pakistan, know it for what it is -- a graphic example of strategic Sino-Pak collaboration. Further on down the road, Beijing engineering will connect the Karakoram highway with a railway across Balochistan towards Gwadar.

Pakistanis involved with the development of Gwadar love to bill it as the new Dubai. Well, it might as well become Western Hong Kong.

No wonder Beijing's strategic analysts are tasting what could be the geopolitical equivalent of the finest shark-fin soup; the Chinese Navy positioned at the heart of the Arabian Sea, a stone's throw from the Persian Gulf; a great deal of its Middle East oil imports shipped to nearby Gwadar -- and then by pipeline or railway all the way to Kashgar; and the Chinese economy profiting from extra gas supplied by Iran and, in a near future, Qatar.

Keep on truckin'

It's not only China possibly winning a crucial “Pipelineistan” chapter plus an Arabian Sea base to add to its “string of pearls” network. In terms of its AfPak vulnerability, Washington may be contemplating a triple X defeat.

For obvious reasons the Pentagon cannot use Chinese or Iranian seaports to supply no less than 100,000 U.S. troops, 50,000 NATO troops and over 100,000 private contractors in Afghanistan -- legions of mercenaries included -- which dabble in over 400 military bases all across the country. Nearly 80 percent of this monstrous quantity of supplies transit through Pakistan. And that means, essentially, Karachi.

So one cannot imagine the “kinetic military action” (White House copyright) in AfPak without a non-stop serpent of trucks leaving Karachi and entering Pakistan via Torkham or Chaman every single day.

All the stuff Kabul -- and the immense Bagram Air Base close by -- needs goes through Torkham, at the end of the fabled Khyber Pass. All the stuff Kandahar needs goes through Chaman, in Pakistani Balochistan, not far from Quetta, where Mullah Omar theoretically lives when he's not being pronounced dead by the Pentagon.

The Pentagon of course could rely on alternative routes such as the interminable Northern Distribution Network (NDN) from Riga in Latvia to Termez in Uzbekistan, which connects via a bridge over the Oxus to Afghanistan. But NDN is not only long but also impractical; it does not allow too much cargo; and the Uzbeks forbid the transport of lethal weapons.

As for the Manas base in Kyrgyzstan, that's only for troops coming in and out, and for storage of jet fuel.

The bottom line is that Islamabad knows the Pentagon simply cannot conduct the AfPak war without the Karachi-Torkham (300 trucks/tankers a day) and Karachi-Chaman (200 trucks/tankers a day) routes delivering like clockwork.

So if you break the balls of the Islamabad establishment to a tipping point and Taliban networks will have a free hand at attacking U.S./NATO convoys to Kingdom Come. Compare it with Beijing acknowledging Pakistan's “contribution and sacrifices in the war against terrorism”.

On message

Beijing actively helped Islamabad's nuclear weapons program. Next August, China will launch a satellite into orbit for Pakistan. Roughly 75 percent of Pakistan's weapons are made in China. Soon 260 Chinese fighter jets will become the core of the Pakistani Air Force.

Even before Beijing delivered the message that Pakistan's sovereignty shouldn't be messed about, the Pakistani military had already delivered their own message.

It concerned that most photographed rotor of the stealth Black Hawk helicopter that crashed beside Osama bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad. The Pakistanis threatened they would let the Chinese tinker with it -- and that would certainly yield some ace reverse engineering.

It didn't happen. But still they didn't get the message in a Washington whose leeway over Islamabad is a strategic rent that goes basically to Pakistan's military. If the U.S. congress would cut it -- threats abound -- there's no question Beijing would be delighted to make up the difference.

Washington may still have a sterling opportunity to get the message next month, when the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) meets in Astana, Kazakhstan. There's a strong possibility that Pakistan may be enthroned as a full member, upgraded from its current status of observer.

This means, in practice, Pakistan as a member of the still embryonic Asian answer to NATO. An attack on any NATO member is an attack on them all, according to its charter. The same would apply to the SCO. Ladies and gentlemen, draw your conclusions -- and start dancing to the sound of the Sino-Pak shuffle.

gutro
05-30-2011, 12:56 PM
Fuck P-stan. I still say treat it as an extension of A-stan.

If the Chinese want to rumble, bring it.... I'm sick of corrupt nations supporting terrorists. All China is proving to me is that they are pro Al 'qaeda/Taliban. i respect their Military, but it's still nothing compared to what NATO has to bring to the game.